1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:10,000 [Music] 2 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:37,460 [Music] 3 00:00:37,460 --> 00:00:43,460 Hello everyone, welcome back to Office Hours. It's a very holiday-spice edition of the show. 4 00:00:43,460 --> 00:00:47,460 Brentley joins me here, I'll bundle up in a holiday blanket. 5 00:00:47,460 --> 00:00:52,460 Oh, I Chris. You got your hot cocoa? I do. Yeah, I like that, like, muddled cider. 6 00:00:52,460 --> 00:00:58,460 You're kind of getting settled in over there, right? You've been in Berlin now for about a week as we record this, so I imagine you've probably got... 7 00:00:58,460 --> 00:01:03,460 Your favorite spot to get your groceries? Ah. Probably got your stuff all set out now. 8 00:01:03,460 --> 00:01:07,460 Well, you know, I've been here a few times now and I've stayed kind of in the same area. 9 00:01:07,460 --> 00:01:10,460 So now I have... I actually have a routine, Chris. 10 00:01:10,460 --> 00:01:15,460 I got, like, the local organic shop just here that's connected to the train station, so... 11 00:01:15,460 --> 00:01:24,460 It's just smooth. It's going smooth, but it's also just about a weekend, which is your favorite time, because it's also about the time to do laundry, Chris. 12 00:01:24,460 --> 00:01:29,460 Oh, doing laundry while you travel absolutely sucks. It's expensive. 13 00:01:29,460 --> 00:01:38,460 Also, it's not like you packed a laundry basket, you know? So it's like just operationally. It's difficult, and I find the entire thing frustrating. 14 00:01:38,460 --> 00:01:46,460 If... This is how I know I need to, you know, spend a good amount of time being poor, because if I were rich, I would just go out and buy all new clothes on the mud. 15 00:01:46,460 --> 00:01:52,460 Now, now I would never do that, but now that I've been humbled, but, you know, I just got to hate it that much. 16 00:01:52,460 --> 00:01:58,460 I don't do the laundromats or anything, and I pack somewhat lighter because I like to do the carry-on completely. 17 00:01:58,460 --> 00:02:05,460 I don't like to... Even though I'm like, have elite status now or whatever with the airlines, because I've crossed the ocean too many times, carry on everything. 18 00:02:05,460 --> 00:02:10,460 I don't check any bags, so... But you've seen that clothesline that I bring with me, right? 19 00:02:10,460 --> 00:02:13,460 Yeah, yeah. That doesn't take much space. 20 00:02:13,460 --> 00:02:24,460 Yeah, it's literally just a piece of string, but I also have, like, a dry bag, and I throw all my laundry in there, and do, like, I don't know, shake that bag to a ton with a bunch of water and soap in it in the showers in the hotel room. 21 00:02:24,460 --> 00:02:33,460 It's a whole scene. I'm gonna have to record it for you sometime. And then I use that string and try to tie it to anything in the hotel room, and then... 22 00:02:33,460 --> 00:02:36,460 It just looks like I'm homeless in a hotel room, basically. 23 00:02:36,460 --> 00:02:42,460 I'm picturing soapy water all over the bathroom floor when you're doing this, like, you know, because the showers aren't meant for this. 24 00:02:42,460 --> 00:02:48,460 It's like there was a wet, shaggy dog in there, I mean, you know. But my clothes is clean. 25 00:02:48,460 --> 00:02:53,460 At least you're getting it done. And you can actually bring that with you too. I would imagine, because I imagine that packs down pretty tight. 26 00:02:53,460 --> 00:03:00,460 That's true. And it means, you know, I could bring laundry or clothing for two weeks, but this way I could bring half of it. 27 00:03:00,460 --> 00:03:06,460 No, no, no. It works out. No one's told me that I have a scent problem, so I think it's going, okay. 28 00:03:06,460 --> 00:03:14,460 Are you working on my top travel tip, though? Are you low-key looking for a spot to just have an always-there stash of clothes and toiletries? 29 00:03:14,460 --> 00:03:26,460 Yeah, you know, the next hot-ass-moved office is recently, and all the stuff I left, like stickers, mostly, JB stickers. I haven't found yet. And no one's mentioned to me, so... 30 00:03:26,460 --> 00:03:33,460 I don't know. As long as we keep this office for a little while, I have started to stash things in a particular place that I won't tell too many people about. 31 00:03:33,460 --> 00:03:35,460 So I think I can do it. 32 00:03:35,460 --> 00:03:42,460 I've told Brent this a hundred times before the audience, the full picture that I think is, if you're doing a situation like Brent, where you work from home, 33 00:03:42,460 --> 00:03:50,460 but a few times a year you brought into the main office, like I was when I worked at Linux Academy, what just made that work so well for me, 34 00:03:50,460 --> 00:03:57,460 is I did the same thing Brent would do is I would just bring my backpack towards the end. All I would bring with me on the flight is my laptop backpack. 35 00:03:57,460 --> 00:04:00,460 Man, does that make traveling so slick? 36 00:04:00,460 --> 00:04:11,460 Because I had a duffel bag that I would stash at the Linux Academy office, and so I would arrive at the DFW Airport and just take an Uber to the Linux Academy office. 37 00:04:11,460 --> 00:04:16,460 Towards the end, because he knows a VP after all, I actually had a car there. I had my own car there as well. 38 00:04:16,460 --> 00:04:25,460 So I have the Uber take me to the office. I know. I'd grab my bag, I'd unlock my office there at Linux Academy, I'd grab my stuff, and then I'd jump in my own car and drive to the hotel. 39 00:04:25,460 --> 00:04:27,460 So awesome. 40 00:04:27,460 --> 00:04:29,460 It was. It was. 41 00:04:29,460 --> 00:04:30,460 Do you have your own plane too? 42 00:04:30,460 --> 00:04:31,460 Ah, one day. 43 00:04:31,460 --> 00:04:39,460 One day, you know. But in the meantime, we grinded out. But Brent, we should probably get right into it because there's some breaking podcast news. 44 00:04:40,460 --> 00:04:46,460 That's right. Fresh news here on the office hours program. Well, at least fresh is recorded. 45 00:04:46,460 --> 00:04:51,460 There is a new podcast directory troll out there. 46 00:04:51,460 --> 00:04:52,460 What? 47 00:04:52,460 --> 00:05:00,460 A Danish company, copyright agent AS claims to represent content producers and news agencies. 48 00:05:00,460 --> 00:05:08,460 It's going around to different podcast directories and asking them for about $400 in damage. 49 00:05:08,460 --> 00:05:16,460 Just enough to make it cheaper than, you know, a copyright lawyer hour or two of time. 50 00:05:16,460 --> 00:05:24,460 Just enough that they can make money. And of course, if they do this at scale, you know, across maybe 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 directories, they'll make a decent little chunk of change. 51 00:05:24,460 --> 00:05:31,460 And what they're going after is imagery that's in a podcast album art. 52 00:05:31,460 --> 00:05:37,460 But they're suing the podcast directories since the director is displaying it. They're not going after the podcasters yet. 53 00:05:37,460 --> 00:05:45,460 They're going after podcast directories and podnews.net, which is a great resource for podcasting news, is one of the companies getting sued. 54 00:05:45,460 --> 00:05:57,460 And they kind of fought back. They hired a lawyer. Yeah, it's an Australian company trying to use some sort of backwaters Australian copyright law to go after podcast directories. 55 00:05:57,460 --> 00:06:00,460 But you know Brent, you know what the meta story is here to me. 56 00:06:00,460 --> 00:06:02,460 Please tell me because I'm still a elaborate guy. 57 00:06:02,460 --> 00:06:14,460 The copyright trolls are turning their eyes more and more onto podcasts like it's been a long for a long time podcasters have been able to play certain things that maybe copyright law didn't necessarily allow for. 58 00:06:14,460 --> 00:06:20,460 Of course, there's no way for them to license it either. Or you know, they could use a picture on their album art that was representative of the topic of the episode. 59 00:06:20,460 --> 00:06:24,460 And they didn't necessarily have to do attribution or go license that. 60 00:06:24,460 --> 00:06:35,460 That's all changed as you know, maybe it should, but it's all it's all changing once you have the ability to just scan stuff and do machine matching is essentially what happens. 61 00:06:35,460 --> 00:06:38,460 Does that mean the podcasting is all grown up now? 62 00:06:38,460 --> 00:06:44,460 Yeah, or it's at least big enough someone's paying attention that right. We got to watch out. 63 00:06:44,460 --> 00:06:49,460 Yeah, it's been a little bit. It's been all right. So this is actually an interesting developing story. 64 00:06:49,460 --> 00:06:57,460 I don't think pod news is the last one that's going to get this letter saying you owe us 450 bucks and I would imagine that eventually probably going to move on to podcasters too if they can't. 65 00:06:57,460 --> 00:07:00,460 So I'll put a link in the notes for that. 66 00:07:00,460 --> 00:07:09,460 We got another interesting story going on so advertising has really been in the toilet for 2023 and it's looking even worse in 2024. 67 00:07:09,460 --> 00:07:14,460 Of course, we came on this show a year or two ago and started worrying our podcaster friends that this was coming. 68 00:07:14,460 --> 00:07:20,460 And one of the things that's at the core of podcast advertising is verifying download numbers. 69 00:07:20,460 --> 00:07:27,460 And so the industry has been trying the industry has been trying to come up with a standard to measure. 70 00:07:27,460 --> 00:07:38,460 And they have an IAB which is this group of folks that I don't really recognize, but they claim to set the standard and they have decided it is time to have a 2.0 version of the standard. 71 00:07:38,460 --> 00:07:51,460 The problem is there's also a massive recertification fee. People don't really agree on the news standard and there's a looming deadline. So speaking of pod news, I want to play a clip from one of their episodes that will link in the show notes. 72 00:07:51,460 --> 00:07:58,460 Actually, the entire episode's great too. They also touch on the Spotify layoffs and other stuff. But here's a moment from pod news that explains what's going on. 73 00:07:58,460 --> 00:08:02,460 It's going to make tracking podcast downloads a lot harder in 2024. 74 00:08:02,460 --> 00:08:14,460 What's the future for IAB podcast measurement? In November 2022, we reported that the IAB's version 2.0 certification would no longer be valid after the end of this year. 75 00:08:14,460 --> 00:08:25,460 And as of today, some of podcasting's largest names are still only complied to version 2. So all will lose their claim to certification by the end of the year. 76 00:08:25,460 --> 00:08:36,460 Those companies are ads with buzz sprout, captivate, chartable, empire streaming, who are now called Soundstack, Libsyn Podbean, PodTrack, Simplecast, and Anker. 77 00:08:36,460 --> 00:08:50,460 Now of course called Spotify for podcasters. A spokesperson at the IAB Tech Lab told us we do expect companies who have not been certified on version 2.1 to be recertified or they will lose current status. 78 00:08:50,460 --> 00:09:07,460 They're welcome to regain status once they sign up again and complete the certification and audit process. We do have several companies in process of recertification and we do expect them to be completed by the end of the year. For obvious reasons, I cannot tell you which ones. 79 00:09:07,460 --> 00:09:08,460 Obviously. 80 00:09:08,460 --> 00:09:15,460 I think that certification process to get to the 2.1 version also comes with like a ten or eleven thousand dollar fee. 81 00:09:15,460 --> 00:09:20,460 I'm not exactly sure what the cost is, but you can imagine that's causing some people to drag their feet. 82 00:09:20,460 --> 00:09:31,460 Did you have this supposed industry group that defines what the standards are for tracking downloads that come up with a new standard and now the some of the biggest names in there like Libsyn and PodTrack don't seem to be on board. 83 00:09:31,460 --> 00:09:40,460 I wonder if they're not on board because they're they're fighting back on it or they just find it useless or like I have so many questions. 84 00:09:40,460 --> 00:09:46,460 I hope that's it. I'd like to see I'd like I wouldn't mind a standard, but I think it should be an open standard. 85 00:09:46,460 --> 00:10:01,460 This is why like op3.dev. It should be something that's documented publicly and that we all agree on is the right way to measure these things and not some private group that manages to make the certification process a profit process. 86 00:10:01,460 --> 00:10:03,460 I just don't I don't like that. 87 00:10:03,460 --> 00:10:11,460 Well, Chris, you can get certified to be a tester. So maybe you go on the inside and give us the news. There you go. 88 00:10:11,460 --> 00:10:13,460 All right. Next story. 89 00:10:13,460 --> 00:10:28,460 Along with downloads, a lot of podcasters out there are reporting a significant drop in downloads. I think it's a little sus, but it started back in October when iOS 17 came out. 90 00:10:28,460 --> 00:10:39,460 Updates in iOS 17 to the podcast app disabled automatic downloads on shows that you haven't listened to for 15 days or longer like this show probably because we haven't been out in that long. 91 00:10:39,460 --> 00:10:40,460 Oh, sorry. 92 00:10:40,460 --> 00:10:53,460 And then if you do enable automatic downloads podcast app instead of downloading all of the previous shows you missed since you hadn't been downloading it will now only download new episodes since the point you resumed. 93 00:10:53,460 --> 00:11:08,460 So you instead of getting the back catalog downloads you're only going to get new published episodes. That is a change and it does seem to be impacting the downloads for some podcasts, especially the podcast out there that have a lot of Apple podcast listeners. 94 00:11:08,460 --> 00:11:15,460 Depending on where you go, we'll have a couple links in the show notes. Some people are seeing up to 20% others are seeing it's almost unnoticeable. 95 00:11:15,460 --> 00:11:28,460 For us here at JBI it is unnoticeable. I don't think also we don't have a huge Apple podcast listener base is definitely part of it, but it's not our primary listener base and we've been encouraging the adoption of podcasting to know apps too. 96 00:11:28,460 --> 00:11:32,460 So that's also been encouraging folks to leave the default app. 97 00:11:32,460 --> 00:11:44,460 But for some podcasters, there's their reporting 20% Chris, I'm curious how you feel about this because I could see like on one side if you lose 20% of your, you know, quote unquote audience. 98 00:11:44,460 --> 00:11:54,460 Then that's a real problem, but on the other hand, it's kind of a report of who's actually listening versus who's virtually listening. So how do you feel about that? 99 00:11:54,460 --> 00:12:05,460 I think that's a better number, right? Here's I'll tell you the bad reason. The bad side, the bad thing is there, Bryant, is that he means you get to you don't get to quote such a high number to advertisers. 100 00:12:05,460 --> 00:12:15,460 That's the bad news and I do believe some places I would like if I just kind of pick a name like say, twit. 101 00:12:15,460 --> 00:12:22,460 I bet you about 15% of their downloads are just auto download and people don't listen, you know, I think it's a little percentage there. 102 00:12:22,460 --> 00:12:25,460 So then I think you do get hurt in that circumstance. 103 00:12:25,460 --> 00:12:36,460 And twit is reported as much, but I think especially in a value for value model, I would way rather have the real number than the phony number. 104 00:12:36,460 --> 00:12:43,460 The phony number only does you good if you're trying to basically have a number you can scam advertisers with with a slightly higher number. 105 00:12:43,460 --> 00:12:51,460 That's really the only reason why and so if you're actually going by value for value, then you know, like a show like this could have a couple thousand. 106 00:12:51,460 --> 00:13:10,460 It doesn't really matter. I would imagine there's a bit of a challenge here as well though because let's say you've set up auto downloads for a particular podcast or set of podcasts and you expect them to be there because you know sometimes you're maybe for a month you're not in the mood to listen to tech podcasts and you listen to something else and then. 107 00:13:10,460 --> 00:13:19,460 Or you're banking for a road trip I've done this sure sure and then you know you have the habit of going through your downloads to kind of get inspired then. 108 00:13:19,460 --> 00:13:26,460 If the software is determining to you know change your settings basically is what's happening here. 109 00:13:26,460 --> 00:13:32,460 Then all of a sudden you lose that discoverability within your own library which is kind of an interesting challenge. 110 00:13:32,460 --> 00:13:42,460 Yeah, I think Apple made this change to well because they sell their devices with too small storage by default, you know unless you pay more. 111 00:13:42,460 --> 00:13:44,460 That's a terrible reason. 112 00:13:44,460 --> 00:13:52,460 You know people are buying their their thousand dollar phones and they're running out of space. So they're so I think this is probably just to help kind of cut back on that a little bit. 113 00:13:52,460 --> 00:13:56,460 So this podcast can be 80 megabytes or 20 megabytes or 100 megabytes depending on the length. 114 00:13:56,460 --> 00:13:57,460 Fair enough. 115 00:13:57,460 --> 00:14:05,460 But imagine you know your favorite podcast wasn't downloading or you missed you know 12 episodes because it forgot to download things for you wouldn't you be kind of peved. 116 00:14:05,460 --> 00:14:08,460 I'm not a fan of using the platform app to begin with. 117 00:14:08,460 --> 00:14:14,460 I think you get drug around by Apple sort of design choices at the time and what they're kind of focused on and I think getting. 118 00:14:14,460 --> 00:14:25,460 It's like all things if you get an independent app that's created by a person or a team that's really focused on it instead of it's just one of the many things that a giant company does you're always going to have a better result with the small focused team. 119 00:14:25,460 --> 00:14:26,460 New podcast apps calm. 120 00:14:26,460 --> 00:14:29,460 I was going to say do you have any recommendations on where they can go. 121 00:14:29,460 --> 00:14:36,460 Man fountain fountain 1.0 I don't know if they're going to do like a beta what but it is so close. 122 00:14:36,460 --> 00:14:41,460 They have their telegram group testing testing builds right now as we record. 123 00:14:41,460 --> 00:14:49,460 And they have been working so hard night and day on the 1.0 release they are really really trying to put everything they've got. 124 00:14:49,460 --> 00:14:52,460 And a fountain 1.0 so I'm kind of excited about that. 125 00:14:52,460 --> 00:15:00,460 Hey that sounded like kind of a new news item and you didn't play the jingle can you can you play it for us and give us a there you go feel better. 126 00:15:00,460 --> 00:15:02,460 Fountain 1.0 close to release. 127 00:15:02,460 --> 00:15:05,460 Stand by for more in the future and now. 128 00:15:05,460 --> 00:15:08,460 Here's another app this what I'm not so excited about. 129 00:15:08,460 --> 00:15:15,460 I want to I want to describe the app to you and see if you can reverse engineer what it's actually doing. 130 00:15:15,460 --> 00:15:22,460 Oh no based on the hype description okay. 131 00:15:22,460 --> 00:15:28,460 We've engineered an AI enabled listening experience that provides users unlimited choice and control our technology removes those annoying interruptions. 132 00:15:28,460 --> 00:15:32,460 Unless you replace them with audio content you actually want to hear. 133 00:15:32,460 --> 00:15:36,460 So Bradley what do you think this app is actually doing based on that description. 134 00:15:36,460 --> 00:15:50,460 I mean my idea can change but in the end I believe it's replacing ads with fillers that you choose but using AI to do it. 135 00:15:50,460 --> 00:15:53,460 I'm going to give it to you really I'm going to give it to you. 136 00:15:53,460 --> 00:16:00,460 Yeah so fader and I hate to even say its name because my god this could be a death nail to the podcast industrial complex. 137 00:16:00,460 --> 00:16:08,460 They initially started life and you go look at it go look up from like a year ago as we're going to bring every radio station in the world to one app. 138 00:16:08,460 --> 00:16:16,460 And you'll be able to mix and match news and music stations and one playlist and we'll seamlessly stitch it together for you okay neat. 139 00:16:16,460 --> 00:16:22,460 But then the money got tight and the only thing getting funded in tech was AI and all the sudden. 140 00:16:22,460 --> 00:16:32,460 They became an AI I think they got acquired they became an AI app right it's pretty neat so what it will do and it this all launches in early January. 141 00:16:32,460 --> 00:16:46,460 Is it will do exactly what you said is it will part it'll process podcast and radio shows it will automatically remove the ads from the podcast and then stream it to the user. 142 00:16:46,460 --> 00:16:59,460 And they're going to charge you a little bit for this eventually there's going to be a little bit of a price you'll have to pay for this currently it's going to be 599 per month that's only through q1 after that there's going to be an up charge associated with to subscribe. 143 00:16:59,460 --> 00:17:06,460 So you have to subscribe and there's going to be an up charge but then it'll auto remove advertising from every podcast and radio show you want to listen to. 144 00:17:06,460 --> 00:17:12,460 They're going to start out of the gate with about 50,000 commercial free podcasts available just right in the app as they ramp it up. 145 00:17:12,460 --> 00:17:20,460 Some of the 200 most popular shows in the world they say are featured in there and there is no opt out for the podcaster who says he doesn't say hey. 146 00:17:20,460 --> 00:17:29,460 Fater I don't want you to play my shows without ads they'll tell you to go pan sand because really they're just automating the skip feature. 147 00:17:29,460 --> 00:17:35,460 And so it's nothing really any different than just like you know auto skipping so now you can opt out there's no lockdown. 148 00:17:35,460 --> 00:17:47,460 Oh I have a few thoughts here the first one is I'm curious because I hear you saying you don't you really don't like have the sounds obviously as a podcaster that makes sense. 149 00:17:47,460 --> 00:18:02,460 But then I know you use things like ad blockers on YouTube and such and during your video playing experiences so is that not the same thing just being applied now to you know you're you're near and dear. 150 00:18:02,460 --> 00:18:12,460 Well I mean I pay for YouTube premium so I do you know I kind of feel like I give that way I just don't want to watch ads on YouTube so I pay for premium. 151 00:18:12,460 --> 00:18:21,460 I don't you know and I don't tend to skip ads in podcasts I tend to send a little value back to the ones that do value for value. 152 00:18:21,460 --> 00:18:31,460 You know so it's sort of it's kind of depends on the medium like where I will block ads is on the web and I think you could make a security argument for doing that. 153 00:18:31,460 --> 00:18:48,460 But where I don't block ads is necessarily on the high value expensive content to produce I think that's well it's a death nail because podcasts and good content take time and research and production and expertise and that takes a lot of value. 154 00:18:48,460 --> 00:19:05,460 And so if you're cutting that out that's imagine a fader got even just 10 to 20% market popularity right be pretty devastating especially when it rolls out in an ad winter already when ads are already paying less and their fewer and further between. 155 00:19:05,460 --> 00:19:09,460 And the nature of the ad deals is constantly changing right now. 156 00:19:09,460 --> 00:19:28,460 And then this comes out in the middle of all that this makes me wonder if it's legal I mean it depends where of course but doesn't it feel like they're taking someone's copyrighted material and changing it and redistributing it you can make that argument again they're defenses it's just like you pressing the 30 second forward button on your. 157 00:19:28,460 --> 00:19:49,460 Yeah but they're you know you're you're paying money for them to distribute this stuff to you so I don't know it feels different to me and it's for it's getting wild out there for advertising 2024 is going to be so frickin wild with all this stuff you got you got the biggest names in tracking can't agree on how to track me yeah right. 158 00:19:49,460 --> 00:20:04,460 You got you got less advertising available than in 2023 and way away significant 70 maybe 70% less than was available in 2022 in 2021 then you got apps like fader which if this is doing it others are going to do it. 159 00:20:04,460 --> 00:20:08,460 And evidently there'll be some open source version of this that can do it. 160 00:20:08,460 --> 00:20:18,460 That just got auto cut ads out they also in there in one of their releases they talk about how they're going to turn towards YouTube eventually to they just what they say online video content but right. 161 00:20:18,460 --> 00:20:22,460 It makes the models just feel unviable doesn't it. 162 00:20:22,460 --> 00:20:25,460 We got to come up something new it's a little scary. 163 00:20:25,460 --> 00:20:33,460 It's a little scary and I think it's it's another it's another area where I think the value for value podcasts will have an edge up. 164 00:20:33,460 --> 00:20:39,460 And where this stuff these numbers are for the sponsor side are getting kind of more and more concerning. 165 00:20:39,460 --> 00:20:44,460 On the value for value side the trend is the opposite direction they're getting better and better. 166 00:20:44,460 --> 00:20:54,460 Now I don't this isn't a complete snapshot but from what we can monitor based on the sets that like flow through the podcast index which is not 100% like for example if somebody has their own custom feed. 167 00:20:54,460 --> 00:21:00,460 And you subscribe to that RSS feed and they don't put the podcast index in for a split then that doesn't get tracked. 168 00:21:00,460 --> 00:21:03,460 But if you subscribe through an app where you do a search. 169 00:21:03,460 --> 00:21:09,460 And that fee that feed is provided by the podcast index then likely the podcast index is cut in so there's a lot it's it's most. 170 00:21:09,460 --> 00:21:19,460 And in the last 90 days it's really unbelievable 97 million stats were sent to podcasters. 171 00:21:19,460 --> 00:21:35,460 Which works out to be about 42,378 us greenbacks which that is from a couple of days ago and the price has gone up since I took that snapshot so it's likely more than $42,000 in value in the last 90 days. 172 00:21:35,460 --> 00:21:45,460 I bet you it's around 43,000 with this point 43,000 dollars in value has gone through the boost network to podcasters in the last 90 days. 173 00:21:45,460 --> 00:21:57,460 Now that that's not going to pay everybody if everybody's on value for value but then again if more podcasters got on board with value and boost then more audience members would be boosting and then that number will be going up. 174 00:21:57,460 --> 00:22:10,460 I mean value for value is like quite the niche in podcasting and quite the niche in the listenership and yet this is really impressive so imagine if it just becomes you know mainstream. 175 00:22:10,460 --> 00:22:16,460 That's a big ask but zooming out a bit more the lightning network itself this is a report done by river. 176 00:22:16,460 --> 00:22:28,460 Very solid company in the space this is an unbelievable stat the lightning network this is an incredible stat the lightning network has grown by 12,000,212% in the last two years alone. 177 00:22:28,460 --> 00:22:38,460 Now river has been looking at about half of the biggest nodes in the network so this is an estimation but if anything it's on the low side. 178 00:22:38,460 --> 00:22:49,460 Another thing they've noticed is the average channels on the lightning network have gone up to like 8 million sats from just 6 million 2 years ago which means there's more liquidity available on the network that's a really big deal. 179 00:22:49,460 --> 00:23:04,460 And this build out I think the other thing to appreciate here this build out over the last two years has happened during a horrendous bear market the longest bear market in bitcoins history as the fed is pivoted and tightened liquidity. 180 00:23:04,460 --> 00:23:22,460 This has grown an incredible leap in boundary all of that now at least for the short term done about by the time this comes out when the price rises the fees on the network go up which even strengthens the case and even strengthens and increases the demand for lightning. 181 00:23:22,460 --> 00:23:39,460 And so this kind of growth brand in when you combine it with the lightning network combined with the value for value network in the last 90 days with the with the increasing price of sats so these podcasters the contributions that have been sent to them they're able to do more than they were a couple of months ago. 182 00:23:39,460 --> 00:23:49,460 It all really comes together to something that feels like it's really getting stronger and going in the right direction and then we look at the advertising situation and it just feels like the exact opposite. 183 00:23:49,460 --> 00:23:59,460 I'm speechless actually because it's such a such a posing forces it seems like and I'm glad we're part of one of those keep an eye on it. Okay one last thing. 184 00:23:59,460 --> 00:24:05,460 While we're just talking about neat things coming up and value for value I saw this on the podcast social. 185 00:24:05,460 --> 00:24:24,460 There is a new value for value based multi redundant object store with a totally decentralized CDN that would be great for peer tube self-hosters that removes 99% of the bandwidth cost of media hosting and storage costs online and it's going to be value for value split based. 186 00:24:24,460 --> 00:24:37,460 You see we'd have a center like CDN that you put into your splits and boom now you've got great back in storage for your peer tube instance which is the trickiest part about peer tube. 187 00:24:37,460 --> 00:24:45,460 It's coming in twenty twenty four and I think this is another example of services sort of like transcribed dot fm and. 188 00:24:45,460 --> 00:24:55,460 Sovereign feeds and others where you can put them in your splits and essentially as long as you're using them you put them in the splits you could call a membership or a subscription if you like. 189 00:24:55,460 --> 00:25:13,460 Then when you're done using them you take them out of the splits and it's there's it's just really clean and simple and you send them a little value they give you value back and how cool is this decentralized redundant object storage for peer tube self-hosters and maybe this will help kick off more peer to instances and help people kick the YouTube habit. 190 00:25:13,460 --> 00:25:18,460 And this is exactly what we're looking for like a year ago yeah right. 191 00:25:18,460 --> 00:25:28,460 I'm feeling really good I think the future for value is bright if there's a podcaster that you would like to help gently introduce them to the concept of the struggling right now. 192 00:25:28,460 --> 00:25:30,460 Point them at the value for value show. 193 00:25:30,460 --> 00:25:35,460 Kairan from ear mortals does it will put a link in the show notes could be a nice way to get. 194 00:25:35,460 --> 00:25:48,460 The kid maybe a podcaster you know gently introduced to the topic and help them start thinking about it. 195 00:25:48,460 --> 00:26:11,460 Now Chris you have the chance to sit down with Moritz Kaminsky of Albi and it turned out to be quite a nice chat. 196 00:26:11,460 --> 00:26:29,460 Well look who is in our stocking right from get albi dot com yeah thanks a lot for having me here I'm more it's co founder at albi and yeah we are building with coin infrastructure basically to allow value transfers natively on the internet basically. 197 00:26:29,460 --> 00:26:47,460 And you're moving really fast I've noticed you guys came along just sort of at the perfect moment in the lightning networks development where we really needed a solution that was browser based and that was solving some of the back end plumbing problems for users. 198 00:26:47,460 --> 00:27:00,460 That's a hard problem itself to solve but then the podcasting to that oh stuff you kind of cut window and the master as well and you've been able to kind of tuck and roll and take advantage of both of those waves and kind of be an important piece of the glue there. 199 00:27:00,460 --> 00:27:05,460 How have you managed to keep up like that are you guys working seven days a week over there. 200 00:27:05,460 --> 00:27:34,460 I think we work quite a lot yet that's true but I think it's mainly because we have a great team of people who's working on albi and we are very much aligned all on our mission to bring like yeah sort of a native payment layer to the internet and and that's why as we build on Bitcoin and the lightning network because it just fits very well we believe that we can now also enable these instant value transfers like we see in podcast. 201 00:27:34,460 --> 00:28:02,460 For example on our straight off it's nicely together that we can enable that and also grow further yeah I think it solves a big problem for developers often as well I'm thinking of like podvers for example they could build their own lightning infrastructure and become lightning node administrators and they could then create that front end code I guess to do all of that for the user as well but it kind of makes a lot more sense to outsource that back end to you. 202 00:28:02,460 --> 00:28:16,460 And then as a benefit to the user I can move between podcast apps and take those sets with me really easily because I just connect my albi wallet you're kind of that that back end and it's really important so before I get into like all the really really really good stuff. 203 00:28:16,460 --> 00:28:31,460 Couple of questions on my mind are I noticed recently that there's been some new limits placed on newer users and I think some limits on with draws is that a sign that there's problems everything okay is it part of the volatility what's the story there. 204 00:28:31,460 --> 00:29:00,460 All the main reason is just like we are not a small company in sense of we have a little a small amount of users we have only a small amount of Bitcoin on our note no it's just we are we are constantly growing and we have also we have to be a we have to make sure that I'll be also exists in in five years or 10 years of time and with our current setup how we operate today we have to do some basic risk management 205 00:29:00,460 --> 00:29:23,460 and make sure that also we comply with the with the regulations and such and that's why we have to have these things like limits in place to know okay how actually people are using our systems and not be completely blind there but it's really just like I think it more is more like it paves the way for what's what's next with albi. 206 00:29:23,460 --> 00:29:37,460 Certainly that's not where we want to end right but it's just a necessary step in between so it's proactive fund management essentially yes yes you could say that's what I mean by that to is a. 207 00:29:38,460 --> 00:30:07,460 With with with a hard asset you can't just go to the bank and take out a five Bitcoin loan and then cover the withdrawals on a busy day it's not how it works it's a hard asset so if somebody wants three Bitcoin taking out you have to have that three Bitcoin yeah exactly yeah proactively manage those funds to make that yeah I get that so you hinted that there's something kind of few in the works and this is kind of proactively managing things to make sure you can kind of get to that do you have more details there's some some. 208 00:30:07,460 --> 00:30:35,460 So I think like that the basic idea of albi is always like you can bring your wallet to other applications right and as of now because we want to make it super easy for for users for creators to use albi we offer them a managed wallet but actually if we look at the albi browser extension for example which is a separate product of ours you can already today connect your own. 209 00:30:35,460 --> 00:31:04,460 For example non custodial Bitcoin wallet we are on Bitcoin lightning node to the extension and you can already do that today also to your own albi account but it is not yet like it doesn't yet completely cover all the features so what we want to do basically in the next year is also offer a comparable like in the sense of similar convenience back and our wallet to users to use it. 210 00:31:04,460 --> 00:31:25,460 To users who have a little bit different needs meaning they want to have want to transfer higher higher volumes higher higher payment amounts and such and that's what we are basically working on and until then we can only motivate people to use an on custodial option themselves until we we can provide that out of the box as albi. 211 00:31:25,460 --> 00:31:54,460 Fascinating so if I were say looking at the recent updates to the zoo swallow what I kind of be getting idea of where you guys might be going yeah similar similar but there really a lot of a lot of developments actually happening on lightning and and so is a great example what they do for example and yeah we have to see how we can enable similar functionalities also also with albi actually the tricky part here is really a little bit the fact that. 212 00:31:54,460 --> 00:32:23,460 Albi itself is not just like it's just not not a simple app that you have on your on your phone and you run around and buy at your merchant and pay with Bitcoin no it's like a super flexible account that you can connect to other apps and this is also quite challenging for us as as developing team to see okay how can we then still give the user chance to interact with the Bitcoin and lightning network in an on custodial way. 213 00:32:23,460 --> 00:32:47,460 Because usually you need to have the keys for yourself right but how do you do that if it like if you want to use albi in different applications actually it kind of sounds like to it's what you're telling me is it's not necessarily in albi's best interest for users with a large amount of sats to keep that on an online wallet it's on albi servers you would prefer. 214 00:32:47,460 --> 00:33:16,460 Those users have an offline option they have them now but they're kind of complicated and so how do you walk that line of giving them a self hosted option that's reliable that they can easily migrate to but then can still connect all the applications like the online albi does I mean yeah that's that's true it's already a little bit possible today but not very nicely integrated so the the current albi you can easily connect and pay in all these different apps like super conveniently 215 00:33:16,460 --> 00:33:38,460 and if you know how then you can also already today constantly offload your the Bitcoin that you don't need to have on like yeah spending account and send them to to your saving account meaning like your own cold storage or something Bitcoin lightning node or cold storage wallet exactly yes. 216 00:33:38,460 --> 00:33:59,460 I like that idea I like that idea a lot it's kind of like a small bounce checking account spending account and then your real your real stack is something that's protected offline I I'm really pleased to hear that's the direction you guys are thinking I think that's that's really fantastic where is remind me where is albi incorporated it's a US company. 217 00:33:59,460 --> 00:34:20,460 So are you watching these are you watching some of these discussions around some of this and thinking to it's probably maybe long term in your best interest just not to have large balances from just avoiding legal or regulator attention yeah so we we have to follow it and I think we like with the measures that we take right now we are quite well positioned for the next year. 218 00:34:20,460 --> 00:34:49,460 Okay well that I've noticed that albi had an announcement with pod home which I believe is a host that's integrating value for value and albi in there and this seems like a fantastic opportunity for albi just sort of as it enabled applications like podverse to have a value for value back and without having to do all the plumbing seems just like a no brainer that more and more podcast host should be talking to you guys are you you don't have to name names 219 00:34:49,460 --> 00:35:18,460 are you having conversations with hosting companies. Yes, yes, we are having conversation with companies some go quite quick like with a pot home super easy super smooth some take a little bit longer but I think like yeah we are able to yeah on board more and more likely on more and more podcast host also to to value for value what is quite good because honestly I don't think there is like as albi is built today and how we can integrate with these 220 00:35:18,460 --> 00:35:35,460 podcast hosting companies. Yes, it is literally done within within just a few days like that I think the the biggest work is just like some nice UI but at the end there is no deep integration required in order to get the value block into the RS as feet. 221 00:35:35,460 --> 00:35:53,460 It's I think people might think it's a little bit more but at the end it's super super simple and this is also the idea of albi we want to make it as easy as possible for for these developers be it podcast players or podcast hosting companies to to integrate this this payment system. 222 00:35:53,460 --> 00:36:14,460 The backend is pick a node either you're going to self hosted or you're going to use something like voltage and inject the value block into our as feet I mean that's what we're practically speaking about the hard part really is the front end stuff really and you guys do that you guys handle that pretty well and make that pretty simple I'm glad to hear that there are some host talking really see it. 223 00:36:14,460 --> 00:36:43,460 Becoming much more approachable to most podcasters when it's integrated into whatever system they're using to publish their podcast 100% I think without that it's yeah it's too manual right yeah it's also a little bit like people need to learn about that and I think also podcasters they need to take on this challenge and brace this this new way of of thinking actually that's behind value for value and not give up after like the first or second show and 224 00:36:43,460 --> 00:37:12,460 there is hardly any booster gram coming in but like it's also a lot on them to educate their own listeners and teach them look these are the wallets that you can use I use value for value because of this reasons and you if you sent me some funds you enable these great things what I can do without requiring ads on my show for example so I think there's some storytelling also about that from a from a podcasters perspective. 225 00:37:12,460 --> 00:37:41,460 Yeah and I think it's it's on the podcaster to really kind of contemplate what is the value here for the audience why would they want this who is the audience for this and you know we have like a really casual approach to this show because we understand it's not it's not for everybody it's it's sort of people that are into podcasting or into JB or into Bitcoin you know there's some cross over there but it's not a huge demand in our audience so we say is you know when we get to 1.4 million sets or 1 million sets 226 00:37:41,460 --> 00:37:48,460 I've actually lowered it recently because the price went up you know then we'll do a podcast because what we do is we do 30% splits across the board. 227 00:37:48,460 --> 00:38:10,460 The editor gets paid I get paid the co-host get paid JB gets its small cut and we're done and it's it's all right there in the RSS feed and it's really simple and what I've experienced as I've done something that's gone from a hobby into a business is there is a enormous benefit to just everything being simple everything being transparent between everybody. 228 00:38:10,460 --> 00:38:24,460 Because when things get serious and if real money does get involved all those little details start to matter and I think it just keeps it really clear and it's not only clear between the hosts but it's clear to the audience too because they can just look at the splits when they do the boost. 229 00:38:24,460 --> 00:38:25,460 I think that's pretty great. 230 00:38:25,460 --> 00:38:39,460 So 100% I think it really nicely aligns all the incentives of all of all players involved right so podcast players can earn a fee by allowing listeners to send payments for example. 231 00:38:39,460 --> 00:39:03,460 A podcast host can earn a fee by enabling their own podcasters to to earn or to receive these booster grams at the end of the day and all have also then are like really aligned and to promote this feature because there is almost no downside because I think it is really not about Bitcoin or the lightning network itself. 232 00:39:03,460 --> 00:39:26,460 This is really like the underlying technology I think they're really the idea in general is I want to share value with someone right because he deserves that because he contributes value back to me by like entertaining me for example as a if if I was a listener and that's also why we at I'll be we think a little bit also over the next month. 233 00:39:26,460 --> 00:39:38,460 So how can we provide an API that took completely abstract away that the fact that it's actually Bitcoin and gives people the chance to just send us dollars for example. 234 00:39:38,460 --> 00:39:54,460 But in the back and then rely on on this instant payment layer like the lightning network for example so sort of as strike does right now strike you could interface with strike all day is USD when you're actually sending the money it's using lightning on the back and just instantly converting between sats in USD. 235 00:39:54,460 --> 00:40:23,460 Yeah, yeah for example. Yeah, I like that idea and I think you nailed it and the part I want to underscore for what you said that is a game changer for podcasting is the value for value model brings in a funding source for the first time for the podcast apps it's amazing we're like almost 20 years into this and we haven't had a built in revenue source for the podcast apps now they can do monetization through memberships they could do that. 236 00:40:23,460 --> 00:40:24,460 They can do that. 237 00:40:24,460 --> 00:40:26,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 238 00:40:26,460 --> 00:40:28,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 239 00:40:28,460 --> 00:40:29,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 240 00:40:29,460 --> 00:40:31,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 241 00:40:31,460 --> 00:40:33,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 242 00:40:33,460 --> 00:40:35,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 243 00:40:35,460 --> 00:40:37,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 244 00:40:37,460 --> 00:40:39,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 245 00:40:39,460 --> 00:40:41,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 246 00:40:41,460 --> 00:40:43,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 247 00:40:43,460 --> 00:40:45,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 248 00:40:45,460 --> 00:40:47,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 249 00:40:47,460 --> 00:40:49,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 250 00:40:49,460 --> 00:41:01,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 251 00:41:01,460 --> 00:41:03,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 252 00:41:03,460 --> 00:41:05,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 253 00:41:05,460 --> 00:41:07,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 254 00:41:07,460 --> 00:41:09,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 255 00:41:09,460 --> 00:41:11,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 256 00:41:11,460 --> 00:41:13,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 257 00:41:13,460 --> 00:41:15,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 258 00:41:15,460 --> 00:41:17,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 259 00:41:17,460 --> 00:41:19,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 260 00:41:19,460 --> 00:41:21,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 261 00:41:21,460 --> 00:41:23,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 262 00:41:23,460 --> 00:41:25,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 263 00:41:25,460 --> 00:41:27,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 264 00:41:27,460 --> 00:41:29,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 265 00:41:29,460 --> 00:41:31,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 266 00:41:31,460 --> 00:41:33,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 267 00:41:33,460 --> 00:41:35,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 268 00:41:35,460 --> 00:41:37,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 269 00:41:37,460 --> 00:41:39,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 270 00:41:39,460 --> 00:41:41,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 271 00:41:41,460 --> 00:41:43,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 272 00:41:43,460 --> 00:41:45,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 273 00:41:45,460 --> 00:41:47,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 274 00:41:47,460 --> 00:41:49,460 You can do that. 275 00:41:49,460 --> 00:41:51,460 You can do that. 276 00:41:51,460 --> 00:41:53,460 You can do that. 277 00:41:53,460 --> 00:41:55,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 278 00:41:55,460 --> 00:41:57,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 279 00:41:57,460 --> 00:41:59,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 280 00:41:59,460 --> 00:42:01,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 281 00:42:01,460 --> 00:42:03,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 282 00:42:03,460 --> 00:42:05,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 283 00:42:05,460 --> 00:42:07,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 284 00:42:07,460 --> 00:42:09,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 285 00:42:09,460 --> 00:42:11,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 286 00:42:11,460 --> 00:42:13,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 287 00:42:13,460 --> 00:42:15,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 288 00:42:15,460 --> 00:42:17,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 289 00:42:17,460 --> 00:42:19,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 290 00:42:19,460 --> 00:42:21,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 291 00:42:21,460 --> 00:42:23,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 292 00:42:23,460 --> 00:42:25,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 293 00:42:25,460 --> 00:42:27,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 294 00:42:27,460 --> 00:42:29,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 295 00:42:29,460 --> 00:42:31,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 296 00:42:31,460 --> 00:42:33,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 297 00:42:33,460 --> 00:42:35,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 298 00:42:35,460 --> 00:42:37,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 299 00:42:37,460 --> 00:42:39,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 300 00:42:39,460 --> 00:42:41,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 301 00:42:41,460 --> 00:42:43,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 302 00:42:43,460 --> 00:42:45,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 303 00:42:45,460 --> 00:42:47,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 304 00:42:47,460 --> 00:42:49,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 305 00:42:49,460 --> 00:42:51,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 306 00:42:51,460 --> 00:42:53,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 307 00:42:53,460 --> 00:42:55,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 308 00:42:55,460 --> 00:42:57,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 309 00:42:57,460 --> 00:42:59,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 310 00:42:59,460 --> 00:43:01,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 311 00:43:01,460 --> 00:43:03,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 312 00:43:03,460 --> 00:43:05,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 313 00:43:05,460 --> 00:43:07,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 314 00:43:07,460 --> 00:43:09,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 315 00:43:09,460 --> 00:43:11,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 316 00:43:11,460 --> 00:43:13,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 317 00:43:13,460 --> 00:43:15,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 318 00:43:15,460 --> 00:43:17,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 319 00:43:17,460 --> 00:43:19,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 320 00:43:19,460 --> 00:43:21,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 321 00:43:21,460 --> 00:43:23,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 322 00:43:23,460 --> 00:43:25,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 323 00:43:25,460 --> 00:43:27,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 324 00:43:27,460 --> 00:43:29,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 325 00:43:29,460 --> 00:43:31,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 326 00:43:31,460 --> 00:43:33,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 327 00:43:33,460 --> 00:43:35,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 328 00:43:35,460 --> 00:43:37,460 So if you're not doing that, you can do that. 329 00:43:37,460 --> 00:43:55,460 Now, also like first podcast hosts that like completely build on this monetization model and leave apps completely out of their service like pot home, for example, or pot fans. 330 00:43:55,460 --> 00:44:01,460 Also, pot fans, especially super interesting what they do actually with with their app because there's a lot more to micro payments. 331 00:44:01,460 --> 00:44:13,460 If you use pot fans, for example, they really literally tie every single action of a user to a reward or a payment basically. 332 00:44:13,460 --> 00:44:21,460 And yeah, it's quite interesting to see and quite interesting also to see what type of new use cases this actually enables. 333 00:44:21,460 --> 00:44:22,460 Right. Yeah. 334 00:44:22,460 --> 00:44:30,460 Yeah. So pot fans, the way I describe it is it's it's value for value for the listeners time. 335 00:44:30,460 --> 00:44:37,460 So the time that the listener interacts with the podcast and the directory and the different app options and the community in pot fans. 336 00:44:37,460 --> 00:44:40,460 They get rewarded in sats for that time. 337 00:44:40,460 --> 00:44:45,460 So it's it's completes like it's the it's now makes it almost a cyclical value for value cycle where. 338 00:44:45,460 --> 00:44:55,460 Sats come into the podcast. The podcast put some sats into a kitty those kitty and also pot fans is on kitty of sats get distributed back out to listeners and. 339 00:44:55,460 --> 00:45:00,460 There is something I think when I got the demo from Sam, I thought there's something to this. 340 00:45:00,460 --> 00:45:06,460 That is going to be a big deal at some point and you could only do it with something like the lightning network. 341 00:45:06,460 --> 00:45:26,460 Yeah, exactly because it was just not it's not the lightning network is interoperable payment layer that is not that you don't have when you use PayPal and this is especially the useful if you are in such a very diverse and different different system like like podcasting where you have a lot of different podcast players. 342 00:45:26,460 --> 00:45:36,460 But they all need to talk to each other over over the lightning network at the end and imagine if if everyone needs to implement the same wallet. 343 00:45:36,460 --> 00:45:41,460 Like if everyone needs to implement support for PayPal. It's just super super hard. 344 00:45:41,460 --> 00:45:48,460 But now you can have a fountain for example or you can have a breeze and you can have a podcast guru and they know all talk to each other. 345 00:45:48,460 --> 00:45:57,460 Although they all have different wallet providers and that's what so what's actually the strength of such an open payment network. 346 00:45:57,460 --> 00:46:05,460 Right. And you manage to have that open payment network where they can have their own providers self hosted, you know hosted whatever it is. 347 00:46:05,460 --> 00:46:12,460 And there's still not six middleman in between taking a percentage so you can do a five sat transaction you can do a 10 sat reward. 348 00:46:12,460 --> 00:46:18,460 That's that's my lightning rant but thank you. Okay, so I got an email the other day. So one of my last questions. 349 00:46:18,460 --> 00:46:27,460 I got an email the other day kind of hinting that if I signed up I could get some additional expanded alby features in the future. 350 00:46:27,460 --> 00:46:36,460 Is that kind of what you're talking about earlier? Is this a different service it look like potentially there might be a little more KYC involved with this new service. Can you tell me anything about that? 351 00:46:36,460 --> 00:46:47,460 With the with the limits that we introduced we are obviously not not not satisfied. We have to do it unfortunately right now but we are already thinking okay how can we are. 352 00:46:47,460 --> 00:47:03,460 Like give users the option to increase this limits and there are two ways to that I think as we think in currently and plan for it is either people go and and verify their identity at there are all used to with the traditional payment apps. 353 00:47:03,460 --> 00:47:14,460 Or we can offer them a comparable solution in a non-castle the way where they can have completely no limits no no KYC required and such. 354 00:47:14,460 --> 00:47:23,460 And yeah that's that's really like that's what that's that's the path that we see going forward with alby if if if users are not. 355 00:47:23,460 --> 00:47:47,460 And satisfied with the current limits what is completely understandable sure either going to be adjustments to the current list because I think what it's if I recall it's something like 10 million sats in and out within a seven day period so that's total in and out no more than 10 million is that going to get adjusted without any KYC additional KYC required or is that sort of the line that you feel like you have to follow. 356 00:47:47,460 --> 00:48:06,460 We might adjust that but that's like for for the next weeks on next to two or three months very likely that that we that we settle for now on this and then we have to see how comfortable we feel and by also interacting with regulatory bodies and such. 357 00:48:06,460 --> 00:48:23,460 And what we can then also yeah what what's what's what's a good way in between play it smart and safe yeah exactly yeah I think also for most users they probably shouldn't in my personal opinion they shouldn't be keeping anything that size that amount in a hot wallet. 358 00:48:23,460 --> 00:48:35,460 Of course it's for every person it's your own personal what amount of money you're willing to lose but for me personally get above a few million sats I just really don't think they should be in a hot wall to begin with now that's for individuals I do think it gets tricky for a podcast like. 359 00:48:35,460 --> 00:48:46,460 Like us where for letting some plug we're trying to raise 8 million sats to get to scale but that's so that's you know we also have our own node we can manage that and we can do a little more advanced so that's. 360 00:48:46,460 --> 00:49:01,460 It's mitigatable so I think it's probably best for the health I think it's such a valuable application such a valuable service which you guys do and the future is bright and there's so much potential and the way you're also able to quickly embrace. 361 00:49:01,460 --> 00:49:12,460 New uses of lightning network as they come online I think is also the indication of probably the likelihood you guys can stick with it you're going to be successful and this is this if this what requires to manage that. 362 00:49:12,460 --> 00:49:26,460 I can totally get behind that and I'm I'm always happy to help listeners get started with self hosting their stash and their stack if they want to reach out on matrix totally totally always happy to do that that's important I think that we. 363 00:49:26,460 --> 00:49:46,460 Tell people how like show them a path also to take care of their own funds give them easy ways to onboard and then you have ways to improve on later on I saw you also are participating in hashtag back up day which is today as we record so that's good yeah I just see that exactly. 364 00:49:46,460 --> 00:50:06,460 Well where it's we you keep us in the loop as things develop and maybe check in from time to time we'll do another chat in the future as things develop that would be great yes alright well thank you for joining us especially in the evening for your time and have a great holiday likewise talk soon. 365 00:50:06,460 --> 00:50:31,460 And now as the French say it is time for the boost indeed it is time for the boost now we didn't reach our milestone but of course we wanted to get an episode out before the end of the year and celebrate the holidays with you and we do have some boost to help support this episode our win comes in with 55,426 sets he's our baller this episode. 366 00:50:31,460 --> 00:50:45,460 Oh he's coming with a zip code boost from where he grew up have you guys documented your needs for self hosted podcast feed making a podcast server sounds like an interesting way to learn podcasting 2.0. 367 00:50:45,460 --> 00:50:59,460 Hmm no no no but maybe if I figure out I will document it Brent do you happen to you do have the map with you that's has West finger prints all over it I feel about that yeah. 368 00:50:59,460 --> 00:51:16,460 Oh sorry I'm holding it upside down geez this is hard there you go that's alright okay this looks like 55426 is Minneapolis Minnesota hello Minnesota do you care duck load it was talent where the ducks are from the mighty ducks. 369 00:51:16,460 --> 00:51:28,460 Nope nope just the ducks thank you for boosting in appreciate that ghost mode comes in God I love that username 27,577 sats using numbers. 370 00:51:28,460 --> 00:51:39,460 You guys were off by country mile in the zip but that was actually my fault I didn't realize that the podcast index split the boost up into multiple smaller boost and I canceled it before the small amount was sent you know the full not yeah that. 371 00:51:39,460 --> 00:51:46,460 Oh man I oh yeah that is a UI change it needs to happen first time boosters always get confused by that I think. 372 00:51:46,460 --> 00:51:54,460 Hopefully the first time third time will be a charm though here's to challenging more assumptions as the mallet is no mister but a damn. 373 00:51:54,460 --> 00:52:01,460 Now is he implying that ghost mode is he implying that this is a zip code boost this time around is that the implication you're getting from that. 374 00:52:01,460 --> 00:52:16,460 I think so we can just I'm so I'm confused and dazed by the by the mallet stuff but okay looking here it looks like it's a Smithfield North Carolina is that look right to you yeah it's in the east of North Carolina I think. 375 00:52:16,460 --> 00:52:23,460 Okay all right well hello North Carolina thank you for the morts and the boosts well Todd from Northern Virginia. 376 00:52:23,460 --> 00:52:33,460 He just came in with a row of mcducks no message at all though he's out looking up for all my duck that's all right talk we just appreciate that support. 377 00:52:33,460 --> 00:52:44,460 Oh the JB Crow comes in oh man we need a good crow sound somebody give me a crow sound you've got some bird sounds right with the fire I got I got it well it's not a crow I got it. 378 00:52:44,460 --> 00:53:04,460 It'll have to do all right 5000 sats boosting the awesome song West pain came in hey that's me 5000 sats the golden dragon sent in a whole bunch of ducks look at that little rack of ducks talking about the bearded text blog index getting rolled out talking about progressive web apps. 379 00:53:04,460 --> 00:53:12,460 Getting excited for Linux Fest Northwest and the Jupiter signal RSS feed that's in new podcast apps that's a lot of ducks dragon coming in hunt. 380 00:53:12,460 --> 00:53:26,460 Yeah that's a lot of ducks thank you dragon appreciate that came out came in with 5000 sats using podverse he's a quote surprise I think those are air quotes that Google killed off their halfway decent podcast app and favor evident fear your product. 381 00:53:26,460 --> 00:53:37,460 Case you didn't notice he's being sarcastic yes remember this they killed off the good they're killing off Google podcast and moving everybody over to YouTube music right they had too many products and they. 382 00:53:37,460 --> 00:53:42,460 Someone made the wrong decision it's like all things get consumed into YouTube. 383 00:53:42,460 --> 00:53:49,460 All things yeah like all things become like a YouTube thing oh it's so sad yeah yeah. 384 00:53:49,460 --> 00:53:57,460 Mayer models podcast comes in with the row of ducks pod fans is awesome new podcasting to it up this progressive web app that we were talking about 385 00:53:57,460 --> 00:54:12,460 before Sam is a smart cookie to his app is rock solid I don't like the idea of listeners competing to get on the top of the leaderboard to be part of the splits though feels like incentives of that could create some unexpected or bad behaviors keen to see if it works or not. 386 00:54:12,460 --> 00:54:24,460 Yeah me too if you recall there is a listener ranking feature in pod fans and they count things like if you play how soon after you hit play after they publish if you listen to the whole 387 00:54:24,460 --> 00:54:32,460 episode and you go up the ranks and then the podcaster can start including people at the top of the ranks into the splits. 388 00:54:32,460 --> 00:54:36,460 See you start getting some value back. 389 00:54:36,460 --> 00:54:47,460 Kind of nice right kind of nice we'll see though I'm watching pod fans with a lot of curiosity the pod father comes in Mr. Adam Curry with 10,000 sats. 390 00:54:47,460 --> 00:55:00,460 It doesn't look like the wall switch worked I know I know I am so frustrated because the last I'm really going to go this time with like three songs the last couple of times I've tried it it has been. 391 00:55:00,460 --> 00:55:13,460 Like this last time it was two problems I entered the duration in minutes and not seconds and there's no like input validation checking on sovereign feeds for that and so it just takes it. 392 00:55:13,460 --> 00:55:31,460 But you have to put it in seconds or else it breaks everything and then the other thing that I did wrong which is a bug and sovereign feeds but I had channel level splits set up for everybody and I didn't have anything on the episode level split because I just wanted to inherit the channel level but because of a bug and sovereign feeds when using. 393 00:55:31,460 --> 00:55:44,460 Value times play you have to define it both in the channel and at the episode level I had not initially and so it was busted because of that by the time I got a fix is basically everybody was done boosting all that's too bad. 394 00:55:44,460 --> 00:55:50,460 You know I mean it really I've really gotten cut up trying this inserting the value times split music stuff I think it's. 395 00:55:50,460 --> 00:55:53,460 Incredible you know we talked about. 396 00:55:53,460 --> 00:56:03,460 Patent roles coming for podcasters so having a legitimate way to play and change up songs and music you know it's a holiday episode so we want to play holiday music and build do that in a way that's legit and the. 397 00:56:03,460 --> 00:56:05,460 Creators get. 398 00:56:05,460 --> 00:56:11,460 Get value for that I think it's really important for podcast so I'm going to keep trying it especially with this episode every time I tried it. 399 00:56:11,460 --> 00:56:24,460 It's blown up in my face in some way this so it's very because it's like well a little bit of validation checking could have done that or the tool is using maybe had a bug or I got something wrong one time you know that surprise surprise it's just. 400 00:56:24,460 --> 00:56:27,460 A lot of paper cuts or scissors cuts. 401 00:56:27,460 --> 00:56:29,460 But. 402 00:56:29,460 --> 00:56:38,460 It sounds like a big opportunity for improvements really I mean it's still kind early days for this but it sounds like with a tiny bit of effort this could be really select though. 403 00:56:38,460 --> 00:56:45,460 I think and I know like I think there are places like ours that blue that are working on this I think it'd be a hundred percent solved. 404 00:56:45,460 --> 00:56:53,460 If it was baked into my tooling right the issue here is that I'm not really familiar with a well sovereign feeds or the split kit. 405 00:56:53,460 --> 00:56:57,460 And so I'm pulling two different tools together that I don't use a lot. 406 00:56:57,460 --> 00:57:05,460 And I'm trying to get the right results where if it was say you know you go to like ours as blue or fireside you're just you're inputting your episode title. 407 00:57:05,460 --> 00:57:19,460 Description tags and then you say oh hey at this minute I have some music and it helps search the index and find the music for you all you know that and it just puts everything in there for you and it bills the feed when you get to that point it's going to be freaking flawless. 408 00:57:19,460 --> 00:57:31,460 We're just not quite there yet okay I have an idea you ready for this one yeah so what if you take that little piece of technology that we saw that wants to cut out ads and instead use it for good so use it to. 409 00:57:31,460 --> 00:57:36,460 Indicate when these songs are starting and it just does it all for you. 410 00:57:36,460 --> 00:57:48,460 I like that idea that's that let's let's use these these chap I think he's for good here here remake and even comes in with 10,000 sats coming in 411 00:57:48,460 --> 00:57:58,460 with the booths and boosts the attack came in with 2048 sats be interested to see what happened if a major artist started distributing their albums via value for value. 412 00:57:58,460 --> 00:58:13,460 You know someone say the size of T swift just to see how the system would handle it oh boy well I don't know are we ready for that I don't think so yeah no no there are we have stars right now I mean it's there's like there's a live event getting planned. 413 00:58:13,460 --> 00:58:21,460 It's going to be a live music event that's going to be streamed using the lit item tag and podcasting to do people going to be able to boost the whole the whole event. 414 00:58:21,460 --> 00:58:30,460 It's going to be sponsor free it's going to be value based so keep your eyes up for that might already happen by the time this episode comes out but it's neat to see it it's all around the music stuff. 415 00:58:30,460 --> 00:58:42,460 Kyron comes in mere models podcast again row of ducks highlighting podverse for my value run through for the podcasting to the apps of you guys yes nice keep on it Kyron thank you. 416 00:58:42,460 --> 00:58:46,460 Bend the tech I also came in with a row of ducks. 417 00:58:46,460 --> 00:58:59,460 Now that you're experimenting with all these fancy podcasting to do features I've decided to embark on a child about hello from boost C L. 418 00:58:59,460 --> 00:59:11,460 I yeah buddy bend the tech guy you're doing a good job you're doing a good job right on man right on that is Gene Bean comes in with 7000 419 00:59:11,460 --> 00:59:22,460 sats you can host with cast a pod. 420 00:59:22,460 --> 00:59:40,460 Oh my gosh oh my gosh yeah I know are says blue I know I know Gene Bean you see how do you put it brand it's like complicated yeah not the only thing we have to worry about right right we also have a lot of tooling complex. 421 00:59:40,460 --> 00:59:43,460 I'm not a tooling complex plan that's it. 422 00:59:43,460 --> 00:59:46,460 Inertia you might call it. 423 00:59:46,460 --> 01:00:09,460 Yeah if we could take three months off but we all still showed up and you know spent the same amount of time we could get a lot of things done we need like a time machine that just has a pause button I could use that yeah right right okay but let's ask like what would it take I think it's something you do one show at a time as the tech gets ready like I really thought we would have a lot of things done. 424 01:00:09,460 --> 01:00:19,460 We thought we would have our own we would be we'd be brewing our own our ss feeds by this point and you know part of me really wishes we were still. 425 01:00:19,460 --> 01:00:26,460 But also part of me realizes that we have like iterated on the idea of how we do it two or three times in house. 426 01:00:26,460 --> 01:00:28,460 So it's like. 427 01:00:28,460 --> 01:00:36,460 I don't know like sometimes we just take a little bit longer than I'd like but then it's like we're iterating on the idea so like what we end up doing is better in the long run anyways. 428 01:00:36,460 --> 01:00:43,460 So that's what it takes time and I probably just shouldn't talk about it until we're like really close but then you know where's the fun and that. 429 01:00:43,460 --> 01:00:50,460 You know and Gene suggested to you like maybe we write up like a spec that we would require for a host and all the stuff and it's like even something like that. 430 01:00:50,460 --> 01:01:04,460 I have a problem with some family members that are angry at me right now because they haven't seen much of me and so they're trying to schedule time to come see me they're unemployed they're retired and. 431 01:01:04,460 --> 01:01:16,460 I am self employed you know doing some shows also this is a holiday schedule so we're recording doubles right now so we're running we're running the regular show load plus we're prepping an additional show for each show. 432 01:01:16,460 --> 01:01:19,460 You know I got three kids got a lot going on. 433 01:01:19,460 --> 01:01:28,460 And this person has nothing going on but yet they're like well why don't you just do this why don't you just do x y z and I'm trying to say to this family member it's like. 434 01:01:28,460 --> 01:01:42,460 You are a priority to me but I literally don't have time like I collapse like around 9 30 at night exhausted I wake up around 5 a.m. and I'm usually out the door by 6 a.m. working. 435 01:01:42,460 --> 01:01:54,460 And I do that six days a week usually um so this like you'll stay you've got kids yeah the seventh day is I spend with my kids yeah yeah. 436 01:01:54,460 --> 01:02:04,460 Although it's really it's the sixth day of the week Saturday I spend with the kids and then Sunday it's back to work yeah there's a real bad with problem there I was thinking you know what a real life goal would be. 437 01:02:04,460 --> 01:02:08,460 Would be to get to a position where I can hire a couple of people full time. 438 01:02:08,460 --> 01:02:14,460 And then we just start executing on stuff all the time because it's just never going to get there. 439 01:02:14,460 --> 01:02:23,460 Otherwise but you know we'll see we'll see Jean being we're always like you know the it's what I've learned is not to let it stress me out too bad because. 440 01:02:23,460 --> 01:02:35,460 The way it generally happens is it's slow slow slow sort of like building and building building and then it pops and then it's just boom all of a sudden it's immediate and it stinks change on a dime. 441 01:02:35,460 --> 01:02:43,460 So I it's always kind of goes like that bunch of nuts sends in our first baseball boost of the batch one two three four five sets. 442 01:02:43,460 --> 01:02:57,460 So the combination is one two three four five. 443 01:02:57,460 --> 01:03:09,460 And then we just do a few numbers like one two three four five is baseball row at ducks there is an old list that I think pod news has kept up to date but it doesn't they have an update in the long time. 444 01:03:09,460 --> 01:03:12,460 So right now it's sort of just you pick it up as you listen. 445 01:03:12,460 --> 01:03:20,460 But we've had a lot of requests for that bunch of nuts so somebody wanted to put something on our GitHub right maybe that be good place to put it and people that's a good place to put it. 446 01:03:20,460 --> 01:03:31,460 You can also create your own you know screw the dictionary just make some yeah tell us generally you come up with the boost and then you tell us what it is. 447 01:03:31,460 --> 01:03:33,460 And we'll start but we'll go with it. 448 01:03:33,460 --> 01:03:41,460 Maryland J B comes in with another space balls boost luggage boost one two three four five yes that's amazing I got the same combination on my luggage. 449 01:03:41,460 --> 01:03:59,460 Thank you for writing hours of entertaining content love the combo and love when we get the combo thank you guys thank you both appreciate that bunch of nuts and Maryland J B appreciate that camera comes at 4,321 sets just FYI. 450 01:03:59,460 --> 01:04:12,460 Eric has created an IPFS podcasting flake. 451 01:04:12,460 --> 01:04:20,460 Yes IPFS podcasting continues to be very exciting camera thank you so much for your hard work over there and I will put a link to that in the show notes. 452 01:04:20,460 --> 01:04:34,460 We very much would like to base our system around next we'd eventually love to have our own redirect or two we got a road ducks from Scott but no message and our last message going on air this week comes from adversaries 17 adversaries adversaries. 453 01:04:34,460 --> 01:04:51,460 17 5,000 sats using podverse just boosting for the next office hours I hope to hear it someday well you know what here you go B O O ST Mr. Rusted Castle verse also came in with some support fear gas balls Sam Sethi came in with 10 sats using pod fans. 454 01:04:51,460 --> 01:05:03,460 So we had 23 boosters total and we stacked 208 sats 500 28,591 sats well thank you very much not quite our 1.4 million goal although I'm rate I'm lowering that. 455 01:05:03,460 --> 01:05:21,460 With the increase since we set that I'm lowering our goal to 1 million this will definitely be our last episode of 2023 maybe our last office hours ever I don't know unless unless we return to school but Brent you know it's been nice either way so he's fun hanging out with you. 456 01:05:21,460 --> 01:05:31,460 So he's fun so kind of miss it actually we shouldn't let it go that law well yeah we could do better you know we could have done better I don't really put that falling short of the goal on the audience. 457 01:05:31,460 --> 01:05:35,460 We lost momentum it got busy with the holidays. 458 01:05:35,460 --> 01:05:43,460 Brank out a new job he's traveling a bunch there's just a lot of best happen there yeah yep yep and next year's crazy to. 459 01:05:43,460 --> 01:05:56,460 We got so much going on just in the first quarter to so it's okay I do I do miss doing it and if we got to our 1 million milestone 1 million sats I'd be happy to sit down and do another one. 460 01:05:56,460 --> 01:06:04,460 So maybe subscribe and make sure you set it to auto download so after 15 days I was doesn't screw you. 461 01:06:04,460 --> 01:06:09,460 Oh good or get a new podcast at podcast apps calm. 462 01:06:09,460 --> 01:06:12,460 Founded 1.0 might be up by the time you hear this. 463 01:06:12,460 --> 01:06:19,460 If not pod versus beloved by our audience pod fans seems like it's picking up steam cast thematics fantastic on I was there's a lot of good apps out there. 464 01:06:19,460 --> 01:06:26,460 Okay Brantley I think that's it. I think we're all done here happy holidays everybody hope you have a great one with you and your family happy holiday Brantley. 465 01:06:26,460 --> 01:06:27,460 We save travels. 466 01:06:27,460 --> 01:06:28,460 Well thank you. 467 01:06:28,460 --> 01:06:33,460 Make sure you warm up that eggnog that vegan eggnog I'm sure vegan dog girl what do they call it? 468 01:06:33,460 --> 01:06:34,460 A vegan dog? 469 01:06:34,460 --> 01:06:35,460 Not nog. 470 01:06:35,460 --> 01:06:37,460 No that doesn't sound right. 471 01:06:37,460 --> 01:06:38,460 Doesn't sound right. 472 01:06:38,460 --> 01:06:41,460 Alright thank you for joining us happy holidays. 473 01:06:41,460 --> 01:06:43,460 We'll see you maybe. 474 01:06:43,460 --> 01:06:44,460 2024. 475 01:06:44,460 --> 01:06:45,460 2024. 476 01:06:45,460 --> 01:06:55,460 [Music] 477 01:06:55,460 --> 01:07:05,460 [Music] 478 01:07:05,460 --> 01:07:33,460 [Music] 479 01:07:33,460 --> 01:08:01,460 [Music] 480 01:08:01,460 --> 01:08:29,460 [Music] 481 01:08:29,460 --> 01:08:57,460 [Music] 482 01:08:57,460 --> 01:09:15,460 [Music] 483 01:09:15,460 --> 01:09:25,460 [BLANK_AUDIO]